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Battles of Norghan 2?
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Andrew Williams
Member


Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Leicestershire, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:42 pm    Post subject: Battles of Norghan 2? Reply with quote

This afternoon, while my mind wandered from my office work (I live about three lives at the moment and really need to kick lives four and five off again) I had some thoughts about Battles of Norghan and a further change to the game.

One of the obvious influences of BoN is that of football management sims. I am not particularly interested in the FMS genre as I have little understanding or interest in football, but one of the things such games have that BoN lacks is a stadium. I don't mean in the literal sense but in terms of your 'home' location.

Indeed, your home turf is remarkably underplayed in BoN. I'm not even sure which terrain type mine is and I've reached the first division. Terrain makes no real difference in terms of game mechanics and you can't do anything with it anyway. It is largely irrelevant which team is Home or Away!

This led me onto a chain of thought that also included the difficulty in balancing teams. In most (all?) FMS games there is no money for the number of goals scored or the players in the other team you manage to kill (a feature that may have attracted me!) - the financial reward is entirely based on fans. They will come or not to matches depending on your performance. Do well and you get more ticket sales - do badly and the crowds stay away. As BoN stands teams are given money by some unknown benefactor in return for beating the expletive out of each other. I have no idea where this money is coming from.

Thus we come to my big idea - the sequel to BoN (and fellas, there has to be a sequel!) will be much the same in concept but with some very different game mechanics. Let's see:

1. An equipment pool, as described elsewhere. This equipment is owned by the clan, not the fighter, so selling it rather than being able to transfer it is a trifle silly. While the ability to fit new equipment straight onto a fighter should be present, it should also be practical to buy stocks of equipment without assigning it and to sell equipment from this stock OR from the wearer. There should also be options to auto-equip individuals and the whole clan, where each unit in turn takes the best armour/weapons that their stats and abilities will allow.

2. Changes to the membership/contract system. A merging of year contracts and the membership salary would bring the unit closer to FMS methods - hire your fighters for X years at Y salary. The option to renew should be present. You can bid for unassigned units and also those with contracts expiring as per normal.

3. Stadium development. Currently there is no use made of the Home/Away concept - by investing your gold into this you can adjust numerous options such as seating capacity, facilities and possible merchandise. Revenue is made by adjustable ticket price and advertising revenue ("Turaken's Armoury - Simply The Best!"). Options like this affect your team's performance and your potential ticket income.

4. Training overhaul. Rather than train individual units in different skills, or train all units with limited success in one skill, it should be possible to set units to train in several skills at once and leave them to it. For instance, set a warrior to train in combat skills, or an archer in both archery and strength. Splitting training reduces the improvement rate in proportion. While stats are only counted as whole numbers, they should be stored as floats in order to allow fractional increases.

5. Staff. You should be able to hire staff to take care of your business - ESPECIALLY for those who hate business management. Staff should be hired in a similar manner to units, and would be assigned to tasks such as Training, Income Management (advertising and ticket sales), Stadium Development, Scouting, etc. The player should be able to handle some, all or none of these elements as they wish and should be able to override any decisions that their staff make.

6. Leagues need to be bigger. Instead of eight smaller leagues, consider four or five larger ones. The game year can then feature more battles. Cup matches will also be more balanced, as there can be three or more cups rather than one easy and one fantastically difficult.

7. Terrain is somewhat underdeveloped - how about choosing the location of your team's stadium? Grasslands, the eastern deserts, the frozen north. Stuff like that. One minor consideration here could be the effect of different terrain on different units - for instance, cold weather could affect some units badly and hot weather would affect others (Drakes and Aragans, being reptilian, could be slower in cold climates). This would provide meaning to the phrase "home team advantage".

8. An option to speed up/skip the missile/magic projectiles is a must. This need not be difficult to arrange - simply make them "jump" bigger gaps when they animate. This will look a little jerky if done to extremes - call it "Fast Forward" mode and claim it's a feature.

9. The option to make the computer automatically play battles. This allows those who dislike battles (or for battles with foregone conclusions) to get on with management - please more people and you get more customers. Though there is always an advantage in playing yourself, there should be a range of play styles and you as manager would be able to specify what method to employ (get in close? keep back? aggressive attacks? defensive play? go for strongest/weakest enemies first? Focus on swordplay/archery/magic?).

10. Improved AI, based on the unit under control and the style of the team. Ranged attackers will try to keep back but within bowshot. Melee warriors will get stuck in. Magicians act according to their magics - support magic to heal/enhance the troops, attack magic as for archers. Basically, we want the computer to send in the attack troops with support from their ranged units, not have everyone hold back needlessly. That said, teams should have personality - some play defensively, some aggressively, some tactically, some near randomly.

--

I think that'll do for now. Go and get writing!
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Paul_G
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Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are all good suggestions. I've waited a long time for a gladiator game like that... this is the closest one I've found by far. I play Out of the Park Baseball and I was into the soccer sims before they got too gigantic and slow to be playable.

I wish the bigger companies would realize that in management sims, the particular sport of choice isn't the most important thing... it's the act of managing resources and developing players that's the fun part... at least for me.

Andrew, you should look for an Abandonware game called Crush Deluxe. I think you would like it.
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Xhaos
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Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 11
Location: CT, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the sequel to BoN (and fellas, there has to be a sequel!)


I hope there is a sequel planned. This game has so much potential.
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Tertsi
Mitorah Games Studio Head


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 331
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps... Smile
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Tertsi
Mitorah Games Studio Head


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 331
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:02 am    Post subject: Planned Battles of Norghan 2 New features/Game play changes Reply with quote

Planned Battles of Norghan 2 New features/changes in no particular order.

Should we develop Battles of Norghan 2 (that seems fairly likely at the moment), it will be developed after the Mitorah Games Engine and our upcoming second game have been finished.

1. A clan equipment pool

2. In game mode B, players
must have 4 units battle-checked
to be able to buy equipment.
Players are forced to keep at least 4 units battle-checked.

3. Hireable staff: 4 different AI level battle commanders, 4 different AI level trainers and 4 different AI level scouts. ("Gladiators with great potential have been found in the mercenary camp. They've been marked. Would you like me to bid for them until they join or become too expensive?"). You start out with the worst staff members.

4. Spell training.

5. Default to fast dice rolling

6. Animation speed modifier. (To speed up missile/magic projectiles, some animations excluded.)

7. Option to make computer automatically play the battles (you'd watch or simulate the battle). Your battle commander's AI would be determined by what you hire.

8. Magical equipment which enable a bit of gambling. (Rare, Magical etc. with random special attributes).

9. Perhaps a new and bigger main story.

10. Improved battle AI.

11. Some improved UIs

12. Some improved graphics

13. Completely new game engine. Supports just about every computer out there. (Win 95+ with practically any DirectX version, Mac, Linux.) With it comes windowed mode support, better UI functionality, fading screen effects and other new effects, cool engine rendered text and easy graphics, better music loading, animations and game UI modifyability using text files for Gold Version users. (www.mitorahgames.com/MGEngine.html)

14. Perhaps more music.

15. Further balanced ranged weapons.

16. Way different battles. More on that later.

- Feel free to comment. These aren't set in stone.
- Some additions can be found below.


Last edited by Tertsi on Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:32 am; edited 3 times in total
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Andrew Williams
Member


Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Leicestershire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question re: point 2.

What is to stop the player from having four units, checking them all, buying equipment etc, then unchecking them again? Forcing the player to have four active units like this is rather pointless.

How about having four units *on your team* the minimum number allowed? This is equivalent to a football team needing a minimum of eleven + subs. Whether all the units are used in battle or not (or alive or not) is immaterial - you must have a team of at least four to fight any battles.

I'd warn away from forcing four units minimum in battle, as the player will have severe problems as soon as they suffer a defeat. No money means no way to revive, hire or equip any more units, so if you're out of cash and one of your four troops is dead, you can't win any more money. End of game, in effect. Bad news for starting teams but a run of bad luck will cause any team problems.
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Tertsi
Mitorah Games Studio Head


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 331
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it would only be forced that if you have 4 or more alive units, at least 4 of them have to participate in battles in game mode B. (C perhaps too.)

This is to avoid the tactic that a player would recruit 3 useless goblins with a battle-contract and never battle-check them while recruiting only one great unit at start-up.
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Andrew Williams
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Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 19
Location: Leicestershire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tertsi wrote:
This is to avoid the tactic that a player would recruit 3 useless goblins with a battle-contract and never battle-check them while recruiting only one great unit at start-up.


...which is exactly how I started a game once. It proved very effective.

Of course, your restriction doesn't do much. One pays for the goblins either way, so if you have to let them get killed in battle, so what? You're then left with one powerful unit (equipped before Battle 1) and you can buy better equipment when you save up a bit and rehire those goblins. Or some decent troops, which is just as good.
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Tertsi
Mitorah Games Studio Head


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 331
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well at least that would weaken that tactic. We'll see if something else should be done about that.
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Tertsi
Mitorah Games Studio Head


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 331
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some additions:

16. Thunder storm spell removed.
17. New tutorial mode: 'Watch and learn'. Which plays a demo of me (the designer) playing. As easy to watch as watching your buddy play. The player will get to choose if he wants the 'Watch and learn' tutorial mode, the normal text-based mode or no tutorial.
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AtmaVegeta
Senior member


Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 106
Location: Statside Finally

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile I really can't wait for BoN 2. I know it will be some time, but it is very exciting. My favorite indie game ever. Sadly haven't played much lately, but I play a game or two every once in a while.

Hope you keep us posted. Also, hope the engine and 2nd game are going good.
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Tertsi
Mitorah Games Studio Head


Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 331
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot more designing has been done and BoN 2 is going to be much bigger and require a lot more work than thought. The battles will be almost completely different. More on that later.

Now I'm looking for feedback on the stadiums design.
If useful, I might reveal more details about the game.

BoN 2 Stadiums

- Have visible chairs on the horizontal sides and/or vertical sides of the battle field.
- With some kind of fences or walls to protect the spectators.
- The look of the wall, chairs and decorations would change when the stadium is upgraded.
- This would not work without 3D models rendered to 2D and used as cheering and commenting spectators.

If implemented:

You'll be able to upgrade your seating, amount of seats and fence/wall separately.

The better the fence or wall, the more secure your spectators will feel so this increases the amount of spectators.

The better the seats, the more comfortable your spectators will be so this increases the amount of money spectators are willing to pay.
- All seats are of the same quality.

The more the seats, the more spectators will be able to buy tickets.

You're able to adjust the pricing of the tickets.

You're able to hire a manager of level AI 1 - 4
and set a % of gold used per after battle and minimum amount of gold left budget
for the manager to take care of this all.

Home clan will receive all the ticket income, but the winner is rewarded the same whether home clan or not.
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falco1029
Advanced member


Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tertsi wrote:
A lot more designing has been done and BoN 2 is going to be much bigger and require a lot more work than thought. The battles will be almost completely different. More on that later.

Now I'm looking for feedback on the stadiums design.
If useful, I might reveal more details about the game.

BoN 2 Stadiums

- Have visible chairs on the horizontal sides and/or vertical sides of the battle field.
- With some kind of fences or walls to protect the spectators.
- The look of the wall, chairs and decorations would change when the stadium is upgraded.
- This would not work without 3D models rendered to 2D and used as cheering and commenting spectators.

If implemented:

You'll be able to upgrade your seating, amount of seats and fence/wall separately.

The better the fence or wall, the more secure your spectators will feel so this increases the amount of spectators.

The better the seats, the more comfortable your spectators will be so this increases the amount of money spectators are willing to pay.
- All seats are of the same quality.

The more the seats, the more spectators will be able to buy tickets.

You're able to adjust the pricing of the tickets.

You're able to hire a manager of level AI 1 - 4
and set a % of gold used per after battle and minimum amount of gold left budget
for the manager to take care of this all.

Home clan will receive all the ticket income, but the winner is rewarded the same whether home clan or not.



Sounds, neat, A couple ideas:

1) With the protective fencing, give that more use than "they feel secure" and basically just being another comfort upgrade. Perhaps make it so that ranged attacks or magic, if they fail by too much, the amount depending on the level of protection, it could hit a spectator, which would cause people to be afraid of your stadium for a little while, and could possibly severely affect income for a month or two. this way you could still save money by leaving the protrection unpgraded, but itd be a gamble since you might kill your audience.


2) When at home, the amount of people watching and how much they like the match could maybe give the home team a morale boost to attack and blocking and the like. Nothing huge, but enough to make playing at home and being well-liked preferable.

Nice ideas though,. cant wait for the second game
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DanDead
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Owermonige, England

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing you could do with the area is make "Danger Zones" which both sides can use to their advantage. For example you know those barriers you were talking about to protect the crowd, well why not put some spikes or barbed wire on it. Or perhaps for double protection of the crowd with moats filled with deadly fish or lava pits or something. Not only will this protect the fans but it will also give them more gory deaths, which is nice.

Also you could add stuff in the arena to like explsosive barrels (randomly placed in the middle of the arena obviously!), pits, mines, wild animals which you can tame to attack anything that moves etc etc...

OH the possablities... Smile
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Xhaos
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Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 11
Location: CT, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tertsi,

Is there gonna be a Battles of Norghan 2 Forum soon??

I am so amazed even after playing so long how much you put into BoN. The amount of spells, weapons, and armor is massive. Such a great game.

There are alot of people that are looking for tactical combat games and aside from a few web games (Tactics Arena, PoxNora) there aren't that many available for the PC. The PS1 had Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics, and tons more. BoN 2 hopefully will fill that void.

The premise of BoN, meaning the team recruitment, management, and tournament style play instead of playing through some cliche'd story line (how some evil has arisen and you are the chosen one....blah blah blah),
will allow it to maintain its originality. Even if you implemented a story, because of the games nature, It probably wont be cliche'

That being said, I hope you consider some of my ideas even though some may have been influenced by other games.

Here are some rough ideas....I repeated some of the others great ideas.

*. Add an AP based Dice system ( certain races have a max / min )

*. Terrain effects visibility and chance to hit.

*. Add info to character screen that has the units contract details

*. Implement a paper doll type inventory screen.

*. Reputation system.
Some examples....
- High profile units are targeted first
- A unit that single handedly kills another team gets a 'Slayer' type
trait. Lesser units will try to run from it. etc.

*. Morale system?? Designate a unit as the leader. Nearby units get a
bonus.

*. Separate the Store / training interface. Maybe have a HOMM type
screen where there are buildings that represent each store or trainer.
Maybe group all weapons and armor with melee training, magic and
associated training, etc.
(I was gonna try to make a sample for you, but I cant get into the .bon
files!!!!!)

*. Older units that die in battle have less chance or more cost of being
resurrected

*. Add a forfeit option while in battle. (I am on the fence about this one.)

*. PLEASE use a different font. The current font is hard to read

*. Make the resources modable.

*. Magic schools. Not every mage / wizard can use every spell. Some use
fire based.....pretty standard RPG/fantasy stuff ,but can make for
interesting unit selection and tactics.

*. Summoned creatures can be controlled, or will at least go on the
offensive.

* Definitely Increase the size of the battle messages window!!!!

*. Consider the Injuries, fatigue, item degradation ideas

*. Consider Career Stats idea.

*. Save Game Option (with the option to name the save)

*. New races / unit types. Maybe even an upgrade path.
i.e - Drake into Dragon, archer into marksman. etc

More to come....... gonna go play BoN for a bit.
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